Joel, Harriet and Bonnie, please know that more than the majority of
the members of this room agree with you. Joel, I respect your
creative, intelligent and selfish efforts in protecting democracy -
not censorship in Israel. More people should post. Remaining silent
can only hurt us and hurt Israel.
Nance
--- In IsraelAngloSingles@
<israelprpros@
>
> How can one compare the Holocaust to a sex festival?
> That you use the name of the Holocaust in such a loose manner is a
> travesty.
>
> And then you state: "that open formal gatherings of semi naked,
pole
> dancing sex vendors - is in Joel's mindview is something to
celebrate
> in the Land of Israel".
>
> This is not my "mindview"!
> But then again - you don't have to be there, right?
> Not at the event and not even in my mind - but you and a few others
> believe that you have the right to judge issues and people without
> having the facts.
>
> THAT is dangerous!
>
> Freedom of speech in an open society, in a free democracy is
something
> to celebrate for. Something to die for as thousands have in Israel,
> the US, the UK, France, Spain and other democracies.
>
> Israel is not Iran.
> And when I and others serve in IDF combat units, we are defending a
> democratic, Jewish nation - not a theocracy in Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan
> or China.
>
> Lastly, do not shoot the messenger.
> If you do not like the message - change the channel.
> But then again, the Israel News Agency did nothing different from
AP,
> Reuters, AFP, French TV, Spanish TV, Israel TV channel 1,Israel TV
> channel 2, Israel TV channel 10, The Jerusalem Post, YNET,
> Israel Army Radio, Yediot, Maariv, Haaretz and hundreds more that
were
> there reporting, filming and getting the word out.
>
> So even if you did change the channel, you would have seen the same
> objective editorial news reporting.
>
> Spencer if you care to "CENSOR" news material - you are in the
wrong
> country.
> You might feel more comfortable with Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al
Qaeda
> which do not believe in religious freedom, tolerance and democracy.
>
> Last but not least the festival was all about "safe sex" and
through
> their mission statement - saving lives.
>
> But then again you were not there.
> And then again - you need not be there to judge ....
>
>
> Joel
>
> http://joelleydenin
> http://www.israelpr
>
>
> --- In IsraelAngloSingles@
> wrote:
> >
> > I need to respond to Harriet and Joel's reaction to Mordechai's
post
> > and to offer my own views:
> >
> > One does not need to attend an event to articulate a reasoned
> > critique and evaluate such an event. I did not have to attend
in
> > person the horrors of the Holocaust to declare in a loud voice
the
> > barbarism of the Nazi regime. The same applies to any other
well
> > documented event from which we can evaluate on a reasoned basis
> > without having been there.
> >
> > That is my response to one of Harriet's critques that I do not
> > accept.
> >
> > See the text below:
> >
> > Dear Mordechai,
> > Please don't criticize an event unless you were there.
> > People have a right to their opinions in a democracy.
> > This is an open, free society.
> > Thanks,
> > Harriet
> >
> > I also note a distinction between having a right to an opinion
and
> > an opinion being correct, balanced and well reasoned, as well as
> > note that just because we have a right to have an opinion that
does
> > not mean that the expression of the opinion in public [like thid
> > event for example] is always wise. Incitement to violence (as
we
> > often see of our enemies in Gaza and Iran and elsewhere - while
> > being the expression of opinions of those that hate us - does
not
> > mean that such "rights to have an opinion" ought be encouraged
and
> > spilled into the public arena. That goes for a democracy,
> > dictatorship or monarchy.
> >
> > The problem with open free sociteties is when we have people
that
> > seek to push the envelope and test the waters to see how far
they
> > can strech the limits and traverse new areas, which as much as
they
> > can be for the good of society, can also be to the ills of
society.
> >
> > Jews are know to be the "People of the Book" and that implies
that
> > we have traditions that in world History have withstood the test
of
> > time....and I saw the clip Joel linked to his post and while I
was
> > not at the sex festival in Tel Aviv, looking at the clip I have
no
> > doubt that the scenes I saw were closer to the imagery Chazal
> > depecit of the Jews during the orgiastic throes of making the
Golden
> > Calf rather than the spiritual purity and power of the Jewish
People
> > when they made the vessels and garements that were created to
make a
> > dwelling place in the finite universe for the Infinite. The
Mishkan.
> >
> > Our people are known the world over for creativity and
challanging
> > assumptions for the betterment of societies...
> > Harriet honestly believe that posting the clips of this
grotesque
> > public display, on a level of collective acceptance at the
municipal
> > level of Tel Aviv at least, that open formal gatherings of semi
> > naked, pole dancing sex vendors - is in Joel's mindview is
something
> > to celebrate in the Land of Israel, then I respectively submit
that
> > I would prefer you celebrate such things outside this Holy Land
and
> > by doing so, you will be doing more to defend the Jewish People
in
> > the Jewish Homeland than by serving as a soldier in any one of
the
> > military units the IDF has to offer.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Spencer
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In IsraelAngloSingles@
wrote:
> > >
> > > IAS members may want to comment here on the following Janglo
post:
> > >
> > > INFO4U: Recent Inappropriate Post on Janglo
> > > Posted by: "Mordechai Weisman" weismanfamily@ weismanfamily
> > > Fri Feb 8, 2008 2:18 am (PST)
> > >
> > > Shalom All:
> > >
> > > This morning I opened my janglo digest email to find a post by
Mr.
> > Joel
> > > Leyden publicizing a recent pornography festival in Tel Aviv.
I
> > just
> > > wanted
> > > to take a moment to express my disappointment and dismay to
the
> > poster for
> > > feeling that this was appropriate to post on janglo. The
festival
> > was
> > > promoted based on the theme of "Safety", and was sponsored by
the
> > major
> > > publishers and producer of pornography in America.
> > >
> > > The post also included a link to a video produced by The
Israel
> > News
> > > Agency
> > > and hosted by Mr. Leyden, which opened with a shot of the Kotel
> > > followed by
> > > a montage of tatooed women, pole dancers, and playboy bunnies.
> > And, in
> > > case
> > > there was any doubt of the true pornographic nature of this
> > festival,
> > > simply
> > > read the blurb next to the video describing the various
vendors and
> > > activities which were at the festival - very few of which
sound
> > the least
> > > bit "safe".
> > >
> > > Perhaps it would be worthwhile for others to email the poster
> > directly to
> > > express their opinions of his post and the festival, and in
this
> > way,
> > > we all
> > > can all do our part to keep janglo safe.
> > >
> > > Kol tuv,
> > >
> > > Mordechai
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In IsraelAngloSingles@
> > > <israelprpros@
> > > >
> > > > Israel Sex Festival Sextival Penetrates Tel Aviv
> > > >
> > > > http://tinyurl.
> > > >
> > > > Enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes,
> > > > Joel
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___
Tidak ada komentar:
Posting Komentar